Yesterday at work a very professional looking lady came in after looking at the flash for a while she asked if I minded if she took off her shoes, they were killing her feet. I kind of laughed and told her to go ahead. She took them off, after looking at her classic 3 inch pump for a moment she laughed and said, "Heels, another torture device designed by men for women, no doubt." I just kind of laughed, but it got me to thinking. Most feminine staples were, in fact, designed by men. Bras, corsets, gurdles, pantyhose, garterbelts--all designed by men. On the way home, "I'm no Heroine" by Ani DiFranco came on the radio. (For those of you that are unfamiliar with this song, here's a link for the lyrics.) Ani DiFranco's constantly being labeled as a Feminazi, and I could see why, but I simply don't think that's the case. Anyway, this made me think further. When feminism began, it was all about a woman's right to choose. Women now have the right to live their life as they please, so it seems feminism was successful. However, on the other hand there are still plenty of jobs a man will get before a woman. Most women make a significant amount less than men, and still if a man's single his entire like he just loves the bacchelor life but a woman's either damaged goods or frigid. hmm. Equality between the genders, but when I call a man a slut everyone gives me weird looks.

I myself, have been labeled a feminazi. A term so lovingly coined by Rush Limbaugh and his partner in idiocy Tom Hazlett, over the death of Andrea Dworkin. Which, I will be the first to admit chauvenistic I'm better than you because I have a penis types of men get under my skin. Especially in my chosen line of work, men think that all I can draw are hearts and flowers and the back piece framed on the wall (An original painting done by your's truely, depicting purgatory and the gates of hell. Tattooed on my best friend's back last spring, by your's truely.) must be the work of one of them men at the shop. I get frustrated, I lose my temper. Sometimes I even say things to the effect that every man should have to go donate sperm, then be killed holocast style--but I don't mean it. I just mean that I'm frustrated and sick of my gender being seen as a handicap. In all actuality, most of my friends are men and I get along with them much better than most women. Although, that brings me to my next point. Women are whining that chivalry is dead, but throughout the60's and 70's and even the 80's women were complaining that men saw them as inferior because they were chivalrous. I don't like women that need a man to take care of them because the irrational fear that they can't make it on their own, but I don't like men who need a woman to take care of them because of the irrational fear that they can't, or the irrational idea that tub cleaning, and laundry are a woman's job. I don't like women that objectify themselves as a sex kitten, but I don't like men that objectify themselves as a player (or whatever word their using for it these days.)

Being in a metal band, is certainly harder for women. Men notice my rack before my lyrics or guitar playing. Men are more likely to come up to me after a show and say, "You looked so sexy holding that guitar." Than to say, "You guys rock. Good show." They actually ask my all male band how I am in the sack. What women in their right mind would be okay with their son treating a woman like that? Not that I'm blaming the mothers of these men, it just seems odd that if a man talked about their mother or sister that way, they'd be pretty upset. However, if it's any other woman it doesn't even matter to them. Just because I'm female, I have to work 3 times as hard as the men in the scene to prove that I'm not just some groupie that decided to pick up a guitar.

I guess we have feminism to thank for womanhood not being defined by motherhood anymore, we have the right to vote, and we can have a career without being looked at like freaks; but really, what did it solve? What respect did we gain from women burning their bras and speaking out against pornography? Don't you think most men saw it as a spectical and had a good laugh over a beer with their buddies about it? My ex husband never liked me being a musician, or a welder. He said those were men's jobs, a woman couldn't possibly do them as well as a man. Women just aren't built for it. You know how I made him eat his words? I tried harder. I became the best welder at my work, I made sure the house was always spotless, I made an extra attempt to look feminine, and still took excellent care of our daughter. I received 4 pay increases over a period of 6 months, which was a record for the company. My husband changed his tone quite a bit, but still insisted that the men were probably a lot faster than I was. There's no way that a little thing like me could lift those big metal boxes without some difficulty. He still makes jokes about my little obsession for cars, insisting that women don't understand how an engine works.

About 10 years ago I started reading a lot of women's studies books, and took the course in college. I read one entitled "Schoolgirls," I can't recall the author's name at the moment. It was about the differences between boys and girls in a school setting. The more I read, the more I remembered high school. Most of the girls were quiet and somewhat withdrawn, while the boys were loud and roudy. I remember one girl in particular. Karon Mitchell, she was horrible. She was loud and obnoxious, and seemingly stupid. She was constantly getting into trouble for practically yelling that none of it made since to her. But, the boys would do the same thing and the teacher would scold them, but never actually punish them. Her reasoning being, girls just mature a little faster than boys and she knows better. It's been proven that boys in school are more likely to ask questions when they don't understand than girls. The reason being that girls are afraid people will think they're stupid or make fun of them. I never asked questions. If I didn't understand, I'd go home with the book and try and figure it out for myself. I didn't want people to know I didn't understand. However, most boys will raise their hand and call out their answer or question at the same time. In this book there were several instances in just a couple of weeks when a girl would raise her hand because she had a question, but because the boys were screaming out their questions the teacher never even noticed. I read in this book that something like 40% of Hispanic girls drop out of school because they don't think a woman needs to know all of those things. They're going to get married and have children. Something like 20% of black girls will drop out because they'll think it's unnecessary, and 10% of white girls will for the same reasoning. That's completely disheartening to me. Feminism must not have got very far, because these girls still think their life should be nothing more than baby making and being a typical concubine. Not that it's a bad thing to do either, but thinking you don't need an education because that's all that you can do is completely disheartening. That's so sad. Those girls could grow up to be doctors and cure some thinkingly uncurable disease, but they just gave up on themselves. What good did feminism do those girls?

It's 5 am and I haven't slept, and I seem to have lost my point, however I'm very interested in reading other opinions about feminism in general. Do you think it actually worked? Do you think it just brought about more problems for women?

I have worked the last 20 years for a male dominated company. I started in an entry level position with just a high school diploma and a few years work experience in fast food. Over the years I have worked my way up within the organization. I have been selected to work on several special projects, because I did the job (a good job) with little or no supervision. I also went to college and have a BS and MBA. It took blood, sweat and tears to overcome (or get by) the "boys club" and the "glass ceiling." I have had to endure rumours of butt kissing from people that know better. I have risked my job on at least three ocasions when I refused to do something the boss told me to do. I refused them because the requests were unethical, immoral, or against company policy. And yes, these are the reasons I gave for not complying with their requests. I have always had to work twice as hard as any man in my company to get half the credit.

Some people may wonder why anyone would put up with this. The answer for me is that it's the right thing for me right now. I can hold my head high and look myself in the mirror and know that I held my ground and never compromised my ethics or morals.

Ahem..*clears throat and steps up on soapbox, which promptly breaks into several pieces* One of the things that I find most satisfying about getting older is that I allow NO ONE to define me these days. I do a man's job for a man's pay. I raise a little boy by myself, and try to teach him how to be a man. I'm a great fan of straight-line thinking- yeah, mostly I "think like a man". Mostly I go without makeup, but my hair's almost to my ass. I don't dress provocatively anymore, don't like that much attention, but if some guy stares at my tits too long I'm liable to shake them at him. And laugh loudly. I believe in manicures and pedicures, 'cause they make me feel good. I'm a card-carrying, dyed-in-the-wool feminist. And I ADORE men. The two are not mutually exclusive. Basically, I do what I damn well please.

There's a great book out by Elizabeth Wurtzel, "Bitch", which is a great read. I highly recommend it.

And I believe in "pussy power", but NOT "pussy politics".

If men will crawl after us on their hands and knees through broken glass just for a piece of ass, then who's the weaker sex? And perhaps most of the social ills that we deal with can be traced back to just that...they're afraid of the intrinsic power we have over them. Think about it.

What respect did we gain from women burning their bras and speaking out against pornography? Don't you think most men saw it as a spectical and had a good laugh over a beer with their buddies about it?



To answer your quote above, we gained self respect. If SOME men saw it as a spectical who cares. Those types of men are the ones we don't want in our lives anyway. Not all men think like that. I have been fortunate or (unfortunate) however you want to look at it to have experienced both sides of the coin in the work place. I have experienced a lot of different careers and bottom line at the end of the day I am the one that has to look at myself in the mirror and hold myself accountable or commend myself for the job I am doing. Because of my work ethic and maybe a little to do with my personality and take no shit attitude I have been able to break through a lot of boundaries in the good ole boy society. I have held prominent positions at some companies that were not only good ole boy mentality but southern good ole boy mentality.

Part of my success was the fact that not only did I do a damn good job, but I never compromised who I am. They had no doubt I was a successful business woman, mother, and most importantly a successful woman. I have heard derogatory comments before. I have been called a ball buster many times. Those times just drove me harder because I realized the only reason for the name calling is because they felt threatened because I was doing a better job (and that's not just men by the way). I have had a lot more difficulty dealing with catty bitches in the workplace than I ever have with men

Things have come a long way for women. Granted there is still a long way to go on some things and some things will never change. One thing I feel needs to change is that women need to stop blaming men for all their problems (I am not saying that is what you're doing by the way). I think we should hold ourselves accountable for what we do and not be ready to blame all failures, unhappiness, or unsuccessfulness on men.

You sound like you are very successful and doing what you enjoy. I say keep it up and keep kicking ass. Be sure at the end of the day you look in that mirror and take responsibility for your own success. Don't wait for someone else to define you.

Well done!

Throughout history, strong women have molded the world. Oh, it wasn't easy and many women suffered because they took a stand. But we are blessed by those women. The key to feminism is not "what has it accomplished" but the fact that we have the freedoms prior generations did not. Want to be a stay-at-home Mom? Go ahead. Want to climb the corporate ladder? Have at it. Want to be an astronaut? Thank Sally Ride.

The joy of feminism is that we are free to pursue our individual goals. It won't necessarily be easy, but what worthwhile things are? I give thanks for the women that came ahead of us, for the opportunities they've given me, and look to the future of feminism to create a world that benefits all of us.

Thanks for letting me share... I'll hop off the soapbox and give someone else a chance to be heard.

The reason feminists get a bad rap is that most of them are moronic, collectivist nitwits who see the world through a filter of bias and pseudo-analytical bullshit 'theory'. This allows them to spout off incredible nosnsense like:

*All heterosexual sex is a form of rape.

*Women are inherently peaceful, men are inherently warlike.

*A mysterious collective known as 'The Patriarchy' controls the world down to infinitesimal levels.

*Personal pronouns somehow 'oppress' people.

*Works of art must be studied to root out subliminal 'phallic' influences and symbolism.

*Women who choose to concentrate on home and family rather than a career are 'self-hating slaves' and deserve scorn.

The above is no different than people who claim the world is ruled by an evil Cabal of Jews, that all Southerners are slack jawed in-bred yokels, that all blacks are rampaging rapist thugs, that all homosexuals are out to destroy the morality of the world or that women belong bent over cookstove and cradle.

When you start identifying and judging people based on one facet of their being, you ignore the fact that human beings are complex, varied, multi-faceted and individual creatures.

There are brilliant, level-headed and fair minded feminists like Wendy McElroy who are ignored for ranting idiots like Dworkin.

Most of the complaints feminists have about men are complaints about dumbasses. Dumbassery knows no bounds of gender, race, religion or nationality. We all have to suffer dumbasses.

I'd have to agree!

Why does either sex have to be the weaker sex? Why is it so difficult for us to enjoy and accept each other's differences? Really...I'm asking...

I don't have the experience of being passed over for promotion or being paid less based on my sex (as far as I know). Still, I get angry when I see discrimination, and I get angry when I'm talked down to by a man (or a woman) who assumes I don't know or can't do something because I'm a woman. Yes, it made me mad when I called to get information about a building permit, and the man said "Little lady, tell your husband we'll need to know this, this, and this, when he comes to get the permit." I don't even have a husband...whatever will I do?....

After reading all the above, I started not to reply, as I am a old timer, Southern Heritage filled male. However, I would like you all to know, not all "Rednecks" are chauvinistic pigs. I have worked in the IT area for almost 30 years and in that time I have had more female bosses than male, funny but I never thought about it much. Most places I worked had as many women in the same job at the same salary as the males. All in all I guess when it comes to Jobs, I see no diiference based on Gender. As for "Feminism" , if it offends you that I hold doors open for you, open you car door, and call you ma'am, I'm sorry, but it how I was raised and how my son was raised, a lady is still a lady.

I consider myself a feminist. I am not a moron. There are other people on here saying they are feminists, they are not morons either. Please don't lump all of us in a group of a few that are over the top.

But in the same sense, I understand where you are coming from. If you call yourself a feminist today, you are almost afraid to tell anyone because you will be lumped in with that group!

I think that we have alot to thank women in history for that worked their asses off for us to be able to function in this society we live in today. We have alot to thank them for. Especially for the right to vote. If you don't vote and you are a woman, it is sad, many women were beaten and thrown into jail just so we can have our right to vote.

I think, though, that most of us that have posted on this thread, can be considered what I describe as the New feminists.....We are women that are career oriented whether it be choosing to stay at home or in the work field. At the same time, we like it when a man opens the door for us and buys us dinner. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Now, if someone buys your dinner because the man has to always pay, that is an entirely different story. But, we have alot to thank our foremothers with that they have brought us to the point in which we can decide what is okay for each one of us.

Our society isn't one yet where we are all the way equal with men, but we are getting there by the hard work of those in the feminist movement. The ones that have a finger on the pulse of this movement changing laws and the like. We have a lot of work ahead of us to get to where we are going, but the world is getting better for women every day!

I saw a CNN special this weekend on the women of Afghanistan. It continues to amaze me that we live in a world where people can be so horrible to each other. Although the situation for women in Afghanistan has improved since the Taliban is no longer in power, there is apparently still little opportunity for education for Afghan girls. And the stories of women setting themselves on fire in order to escape their husbands and families was appalling... reminds me why women have fought so hard for some semblance of equality.

I'm not a feminist. I don't like a lot of things that have been done in the name of feminism -- similarly, I dislike things that have been done in the name of patriarchal power. Both sides of those opposing forces seem wrong in my opinion, and one cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out another's bad behavior in the past.

Perhaps I've had an unusual life to this point. I have never (to my knowledge) been denied anything simply because I am female... nor have I been given special consideration because of my gender either. In dealing with everyone in my life, I consider myself as a spirit first... a human second... and a female third. I honestly think that because I project that to others, I am given the same treatment in return.

That's what works for me.

I am not going to even touch this post.